Right about now, anyone who’s seeing this post is thinking “God damn it! What’s with the spoilers?!” First of all, if you haven’t seen last night’s episode yet, then you have nothing to fear … yet. If you read further, though, you may be spoiled. You have been warned, so say we all … and all that.
While the episode was finally an action-packed one, the one thing that stuck in my mind came at its end. Adama and Tigh were holding their ground, barricaded within the stealth launch bay and having just sent Roslin, Starbuck and Tyrol off to, presumably, the Base Star. Then, just as Adama and Tigh had their closest moment since having to deal with the aftermath of the final Cylons revelation, the advancing soldiers toss a grenade into the small room. It goes off, and we’re left with that familiar “to be continued.” Without seeing next week’s promo, I’m pretty sure Tigh took one for the team.
First of all: yes, I did see next week’s promo. In fact, it was nearly impossible to ignore, as it followed immediately after the “to be continued” text. Just as I saw the grenade get tossed into the room, though, I knew that Saul leapt onto it. Let’s ignore the fact that it seemed to go off way too fast for someone to run over and jump on top of it, and let’s ignore what was said in the promo. However, if the promos are any indication, they could be totally misleading.
If Saul’s dead, first of all: I’m bummed. He’s been one of my favorite — if not the favorite — characters from the show. If he can’t be resurrected, then is this the end for him? Then again, what if he can be resurrected? Let’s say he comes back somehow (and I have no idea how) — could this be where Ellen comes back into the picture, as well? Remember, Kate Vernon (the actress who portrays Ellen) has said she’d be present this season. What would she be without Saul? If she’s not back in physical form, then perhaps Saul is mortally wounded by the grenade and hallucinating Ellen for a few episodes. I’ve gotta say, though, I really hope that’s not the extent of her role.
What are your thoughts? Did Saul jump on the grenade to save Bill? And, if so, did it kill him? Let us know in the poll.
Clacked by Keith McDuffee 
on Jan 31, 2009 @ 09:02 EST5EDT
Why are you assuming it was a grenade and not a flashbang, which is what any team attacking a barricade like that would probably use? They don’t know who is in there!
Since the final five somehow ended up in the colonies, there must be some type of resurrection device somewhere. So I think we could see Saul, but Ellen was probably out of range if it was like the resurrection hubs we seen before. (And we did see her in the ocean/flashback)
I think the pregnant 6 IS Ellen, as there were base stars near new caprica when she was killed.
But I thought there were no more ressurrection ships
This episode was bad ass.
Adama, Tigh, Starbuck, Apollo, and Tyrol all being (bad ass) good guys.
This is definitely a episode I will have to rewatch.
A ten for me.
I have to steal a line from Dennis Miller! Fire up the dingy because Racetrack, Seelix, and Gaeta you are all dead to me! The personal betrayals were unbearable.
Yes Starbuck, it feels good to be alive. She reminded me of a time when she was more sure of herself and it was pure action goodness. To see Adama, Tigh, Lee, and Kara against the world was so sad, yet so exciting.
And regarding the monster meat head who came in and beat on Helo, and take Athena and Hera away; I hope we get to see when Helo or Athena face him under more favorable circumstances.
I’m glad Roslin is back in the game.
TIgh can’t be dead.
Did I see Kara climbing up a ladder to get away. She did not board that raptor, did she? I have to watch again.
So painful to wait a whole week for the next episode.
The betrayal was so painful, wasn’t it? While I can understand the loss that Gaeta suffered perhaps bringing him to the brink…I just cannot stand that he’s gone through with it. This is such a small microcosm, and the “supporters” of this coup seem to have gone with it on the fly. There is so much hesitation in their actions. I think it will be a reversal of this against Gaeta and friends, and thus will begin the hell to pay. Or, they will be forgiven. I’m not sure Adama couldn’t see his way past their infractions to forgiveness…he’s such a good man.
The very first episode I ever saw of BSG was when Starbuck met Sam, about halfway into the series. I just stumbled across it and she was such a kick ass character I was hooked immediately. She was that chick tonight. The one who brought me to BSG.
I cannot wait for next week. I don’t even want to speculate too much on what’s to come, because the ride is that good.
Oh, and did anyone else wonder how anything will ever be the same again?
The Galactica will be hurting for people power that’s for sure.
It’s a flashbang, most likely. I do expect him to die (temporarily) though and Adama to live.
I watched that part again, and Starbuck and Apollo went up the ladder, not on the raptor.
Just my speculation but if Tigh did jump the grenade, and die, he can easily come back by whatever means they bring Ellen back by. Maybe after a Final 5 dies, they come back more enlightened too.
And I’ve decided, I want Athena to deal with Monster Meat Head all by herself. POW! That’s for scaring my baby! POW, POW. That’s for marring Helo’s face!
I’m going to rewatch tonight, but I just don’t understand where they were going? Why leave Adama alone without putting up a fight. I just don’t get it.
Who knows? Perhaps they are going after Gaeta. Starbuck at least seems bent on further mayhem, and maybe she only wants it directed at Gaeta…
It’s going to be a very loooooong week of waiting to find out!
-Adama gave them orders “Chief, take them back the way you came” Adama knows that he will probably be captured so he needs good people not captured to help out.
-Tigh jump on the grenade? Keith, that’s a huge stretch to me. Like others have said, it’s probably a flash bang,. Tigh is in no way dead. I don’t see RDM going back on his “the final five don’t resurrect.” They are reborn. We will see soon. Zarek is bluffing about Tigh being dead. My wish? We see Saul go all John McClane on Galactica. Yippie Kai yay you mother frakkers.
These final episodes just keep hitting them out of the park. This is starting out to be one hell of a ride.
-There is going to be a reckoning
re: reckoning
Damn right. No amnesties, no forgiveness. I see Seelix and Race Track and Connor and Skulls and Gaeta, and all I can think about is Jar Jar Binks softly saying, “you say people gonna die?”
Well somehow Ellen is coming back. Either she did not die from the poison (only in a coma), or she did die, but revived in the same body. What other possiblities are there?
And I *think* Kara is somehow Tigh and Ellen’s offspring, although I have no proof, spoiler or otherwise to confirm it. Maybe I’d just like to see it so.
The first thing I would do after regaining control of the Galactica is fire that animal that wants to rape Athena out an airlock….after I hung him first. I will have to settle down here before I will submit a review.
*POST AUTHOR*
Sorry guys — the poll’s up now. For some reason it was dated in to start in the future. Weird.
Ok, so I guess I should reiterate. That episode was bad ass. I case anyone was wondering to what level of bad-assery it was, it was at level Kara Fraking Thrace level.
As much as I hate the idea of this mutiny, it does make a lot of sense for what emotions these people have been going through. RDM mentioned on the podcast that they made a specific choice not to spell out the steps of the mutiny but instead let it play out to the audience. I think this was an excellent decision. Other than having a good idea what was going on, we really had no idea what was going on.
So, as the resident guy that says stuff like this about our beloved cast, the scene with Anders… Seelix looked GOOD. I mean the whole sultry, leaning in the door way in silhouette really worked for her. That being said, she is now dead to me. Not for the beat down of Anders (as any one knows, any obstacle between Apollo and Starbuck being together is, uh… removable(?) in my eyes), but more specifically that she’s following Gaeta.
It was nice to see some characters from the ‘past,’ but it was a bit of a shock to see Laird. Someone who I really looked forward to being a part of the show, really hasn’t spent much (if any) time on screen since the beginning of the Pegasus episodes.
While the public kiss between Adama and Roslin has been and will be discussed more, I really liked the moment where she told Adama that she was (basically) leaving the ship because she he that he wouldn’t, nor would he be ok with her staying. It said a lot about where those two are, and how well they know each other. Other shows would have turned it into some large argument, but it was played pitch perfect here.
I was unimpressed with the scene with the Cylons in the cell. Sharon seemed out of recent character for letting Six (any Six, really) near Hera. Anders; even on second viewing I missed the conversation between him and Sharon. We really haven’t seen much of the Cylons interacting with each other, especially with any of the Five, recently, and I felt that we missed out on something there.
Ok, so if Athena was locked up, then who was piloting the Raptor at the end? She was in a uniform, and it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me Adama would tolerate (at that exact moment, who cares, but I’m saying in general) another Eight in a uniform (I’m still a little wonky about the Cylons even having a raptor, but I guess that can be explained by them doing the FTL upgrades).
I really enjoyed Zarek tonight, as well. I like how he was so much more pragmatic in his process than his partner. We’re finally seeing the true Tom Zarek in a way that we probably haven’t seen since Kobol.
I am fortunate that the team we’re focusing on all have my favorite characters and pairings. Lee/Apollo, Adama/Tigh, and Tyrol. This is the first time in a while that he’s been himself (save the final scene with Hot Dog last week), and its refreshing. I, for the record, can’t believe for a second that Tigh is dead. Too much story left to tell, especially with Ellen and pregnant Six (have we ever sorted out if she is/was/might be Caprica Six at some point)?
I do still think that Tyrol, Apollo, and Lee leaving the air lock that quickly made no sense and wasn’t resolved well at all. I just don’t see Lee leaving his dad there. I’m sure we’ll understand more later, but they really just glazed over it.
I can’t say enough good about Kara, or Kara/Lee. I love these two together in high stress situations, away from the BS that has unfortunately clouded their relationship otherwise. Sackhoff has done a phenomenal job defining this character, and I can’t wait to see what is in store for her.
Bringing me to Gaeta. I’ve made my thought’s pretty clear in the post for last week’s episode, but if anything, I’m coming around, A LITTLE. I guess I can see how he’s gotten to where he is. But, adding it all up, in my estimation, he’s still a weak, selfish, feckless fraction of a man. For Zarek, its easier: He’s reverting to form, but at the same time I believe his spoken motivations more than Gaeta’s. Gaeta’s betrayal is personal, first Baltar, the Eight, the Admiral. RDM makes a distinction between Zarek and Gaeta, saying that Zarek is more pragmatic. That he would have executed Adama right away, but Gaeta seems to have another plan for him. Based on the previews, it seems like its some kind of public thing, where Gaeta will obviously have the chance to verbally berate him first. This goes back to the fact that Gaeta’s choices are more about Gaeta’s affectations than they will ever been about consorting with the Cylons (lets not forget, that one of his personal betrayals was based on his trusting a Cylon).
In the end, I guess this is a more interesting way of going about things than Zarek working with more minor characters, but to me he has completely assassinated the character of Felix Gaeta to me. Its weird how strongly I hate this fictional character, but I despise him, and it will ruin him on future rewatchings of the series for me.
I just figured it was a 8 working in communication with Galen. She obviously knew where to go. Her flight suit was a cylon flight suit and not a colonial one. The 8 in the web episodes wore the same one.
I second your bad assery. Bad. Ass. Pure and simple.
To me it makes sense that Athena does fear Caprica near Hera. Caprica is after all the reason she was able to get Hera back. Remember her snapping Boomer’s neck?
…that should read – it makes sense that Athena does NOT fear Caprica 6 near Hera.
Better late than never for a correction right?
right!
Oh yeah! Good call!
The cylons have used raptors (captured?) before. Remember D’Anna said something like I’ll have an 8 prepare a raptor.
And Dorv’s Lee/Kara shipper heart is revealed, you sap! Just kidding – I am totally devoted to the idea those 2 ending up together. Hot Dog referenced that she had nothing to show for her relationships and even I felt that dig.
Though my love of Cally has overshown it, I think the record would show that I’ve always been a Lee/Kara ‘shipper.
I said this after Resurrection Ship Part II:
“I’m a bit worried about this arc with Apollo. One of my absolute favorite parts of season 2.0 (and season 1, I guess, too) was the Apollo/Starbuck dynamic. Him kissing her in ‘Home’ when I don’t think he really meant to was classic. Its all love, but its brother/sister love one day, and a different kind the next”
In looking back through the archives at TVS, I found something interesting… Keith’s first post reviewing BSG was also my first time commenting on it.
And because I’m doing some late night time wasting:
Tim-1 and Akbar’s first comments at TVS were both for the same episode, Epiphanies.
True to form, Akbar was calling someone an idiot (Though, as per usual, Akbar was completely correct), and Tim… well, I’m assuming its the same as our Tim-1, but:
” This show was the greatest program to appear on tv for a long time. However, the disapointing thing for me was they, yet again, want to use poor Sharon for their whipping girl…. ps Grace Park is an outstanding actress!”
I need to put the computer down, and just go to bed.
Thanks for the history reminder.
Just look how far we have come ;)
You are a romantic.
I think the mutineers wouldn’t be too likely to kill Adama/Tigh, as they’d be too valuable as hostages. More than likely it was a flash bang grenade to stun them so that the mutineers could apprehend them more easily.
I had to do a double-take on the raptor pilot — sure sounded like and looked like Athena (Grace Park), but as she was locked up in the Brig, it couldn’t have been her. On second (and third and fourth watching), it’s not Grace Park (another Asian actress), but she sounded like Grace Park.
If you don’t mind spoilers, go over to IMDB, and see who is guest-starring in the last three episodes. Wonder how that particular character is now re-appearing in this series?
Going to have to disagree with you on the one M. The pilot WAS Grace Park so she was an un-named 8.
Here is a screen shot of her behind Roslin in front of the open Raptor:
https://pics.livejournal.com/akbar56/pic/0015rh91.jpg
OK….I’m calm now.
Really, my compliments to the well thoughtout reviews you guys have already written. I am not trying to suck up here but by now, you guys know that I am not afraid to speak up for what I like. One immediate thing that Dorv mentioned(and this was a subtle, and EXCELLENT observation Dorv) was the fact that Athena allowed Six to approach Hera. I too, scratched my head at that. The best explanation I can offer is that with the shock and horror at seeing Helo beaten, and the thought of being raped by a mindless thug, probably (and understandably) altered her (Athena) immediate attention.
This episode was a no-brainer as far as drama, action, and quality performances. The great acting was spread around by many. Standout performances by Grace Park, Olmos, and Kate Sackoff. Athena, of course is always cool under fire but she also transfers that coolness and disipline into her personal life. Kara and Adama thrives….no, EXCELS, when they are put to the fire. There are people like that in real life you see. Case in point, that heroic pilot that safely landed that plane in the Hudson comes to mind. The difference with Adama and Kara (especially Kara), is that while being a star in a crisis, they are lost at sea in the normalcy of a routine life. It is though they need the sword at their throat in order to find their direction.
I don’t want to beat up on Baltar again, but that scene with his fawning worshippers made me roll my eyes in surrender. Once again BSG does a good job mirroring reality. There are people in real life that act like Baltar’s women. They get so wrapped up in a certain cause, to the point of preclusion to reason. I never understood what power Baltar had over those women. Yet Gaeta, now surpasses Baltar as my most reprehensible character. Hmmm….and maybe Zarek too. They are the two villains who are responsible for putting Athena in danger.
As great as this episode was it was also a disturbing one for me. Not since the near rape of Sharon by those creeps from the Pegasus was I more melancholy. I know it’s just a show, but I can’t help it. Seeing Sharon treated that way is an outrage….blasphemy. I remember as a child I fell into a silo (I wasn’t supposed to be playing up there) from a door hanger. I will never forget that feeling of helplessness and terror during that brief but terrifying fall. Even after all these years (luckily it was soft silage I hit, and I was young and only shaken up). The feeling is like that when I see Sharon or an eight facing danger….the helplessness….of nothing I can do about it.
I hope Saul makes it. If he were to die it would leave a huge hole in the show. He is my second favorite character. Outstanding.
The Yancy street gang. The nickname I gave to my office group after a group from “The Fantastic Four” is worried about life after BSG. I always print out the comments for them and the demand is always high. If they want to have a question answered, they usually find it from you guys: Dorv, Akbar, bsgfan and others. Speaking of Akbar, thank you for that great link you sent me last week. Hmmm. If it seems I’m rambling I apologise. Still shaken up by that episode I guess. Good night all.
Definitely a flashbang. The SFX department wouldn’t have used that blinding white light for a fragmentation grenade. Also the marines wouldn’t want to damage the ship unnecessarily, or blow open the airlock and kill themselves.
I just did my reading on flashbang, and it seems to fit.
We know TIgh is around for future episodes, so I guess we have to wait to see why it was said that Tigh did not make it.
*POST AUTHOR*
It’s still technically a “grenade” that was thrown, even if it’s a “flashbang,” so what I said still applies. However, it’s highly unlikely either of them would be killed by it.
Something on the subject:
https://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_tear_gas_grenade_explosion_power_kill_the_people
I could definitely see next week’s episode opening with Tigh jumping on the grenade, we all think he might be dead, then we learn it just stunned him.