Well that was all sort of … anticlimactic, wasn’t it? Who would have thought that Jack was actually on to something at the end of season three when he was making full use of that golden ticket from Oceanic, hoping to cause a crash back onto the island?
It was an interesting episode, but left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. This was definitely one of those installments that requires a whole lot of faith on the part of the viewer. I was left with a lot of questions. I have no reason not the have faith, though, so I’ll trust in the Lost team for now….
Some of the questions I’m wondering about: what the hell happened to Ben, who is the chick with Sayid, why did Hurley have a guitar, and what happened to Aaron? Let’s think about these one by one:
There were a bunch of other interesting things happening in this episode too. Hurley’s guitar and Jack’s dad’s shoes weren’t the only little details helping to recreate flight 815. Frank Lapidus just happened to be flying the Ajira Airway’s flight, and he was supposed to be the pilot of 815. We also had a passenger who was under arrest, being escorted by an officer of the law in Sayid and his flying companion.
There was some interesting foreshadowing happening when Jack and Ben were talking in the church. Ben’s speech about doubting Thomas (along with the previews for next week) lead me to believe Locke is going to be raised from the dead once his coffin hits the island. We all saw this coming though, right? I wonder if Jack will end up being like the apostle Thomas, refusing to believe that Locke is alive again. Oh well, we’ll have to wait another week for that answer, and hopefully some others.
Now that we’re back on the island, I think the season is going to get very interesting (as if it wasn’t already).
Clacked by Bob Degon
on Feb 18, 2009 @ 23:48 EST5EDT
When Ben said he had something to do (and i can’t remember the exact turn of phrase, a “loose end with and old friend” or something like that), it lead me to believe that he was going to visit Penny.
The two other people on the plane, methinks they’ll be around for a while. Zuleikha Robinson of Rome and New Amsterdamn played the probable Gov’t Agent, and Saïd Taghmaoui of GI Joe and Vantage point played the other passenger.
My assumption is that they will use flashbacks to show us what happened with Kate/Aaron (Which I have a feeling will piss me off no matter what… I like the idea of Aaron being a part of Jack’s life, as it connects him to Claire), Ben, Sayid, and Hurley.
One comment that I forgot to make last week, that I thought of during tonight’s replay. How un-Sawyer like that Sawyer when they found Jin. Not a negative thing, it was really cool to see him reconnect with his S1 boat mate.
I think Kate took Aaron to the hotel where Grandma was. That may have been Ben’s plan all along; to show Kate a safe person to leave Aaron with.
Why transport to Guam? Good question. Is there still a military base on Guam?
Dorv – Ben visiting Penny, that’s sounds right. He was phoning from a dock right?
I forget that Ben is really evil, it gave me chills when he said, “who cares” about the others on the flight.
Maybe that will be the reason Desmond comes back to the island, maybe Ben killed Penny. :(
I felt bad for that pilot when he saw the losties on the plane.
I only hope that Kate did something safe with Aaron. Knowing how evil Kate has been I am very worried she did something nasty to the kid.
I don’t she has anything to gain from hurting Aaron. I think she loves Aaron (in her own way).
Yes, it’s a much more pleasant thought to think that Aaron is having oatmeal cookies and watching Sesame Street with Grandma.
Yikes, that should read, “I don’t see her having anything to gain from hurting Aaron.”
She didn’t have anything to gain with most of the bad mistakes she has made as well.
If she just gave him to Claires mom, then why not tell Jack? If they are going back to the island and keeping Aaron safe is important, telling Jack what she did should be nothing.
I’m really intrigued by what happened in the mean time for each of our Losties, but especially Kate.
Why did she not just tell Jack where Aaron was? Probably because she has reprobate thinking and she wanted Jack to suffer the unknowing, just as she believes herself suffering for being separated from Aaron.
I think she is an icky person too, but killing Aaron? No. And I shall bet you my best handkerchief I’m right!
All I am saying is that Kate has killed in the past. Especially when the person she killed no longer had any use for her.
Aaron was her ticket to freedom and she built her case to stay out of prison to by being his mom. Kate now has realized that she does have to go back to the island and therefore Aaron is no longer of any use to her.
Kate is evil and deserves no sympathy. What Jack and Sawyer see in her is beyond me.
Wow… never realized how much I hate Kate! However, I still don’t think she actually killed the kid. Leaving him with Claire’s mom (or maybe even with Sawyer’s kids mom) is the most logical course of action. The emotion behind her “don’t ever ask me about Aaron” to Jack just seemed alot more involved than just dumping the kid with someone else.
Somebody is afraid to lose their linen! ;)
Now that I think about it Lost is missing likable women characters. It never occurred to me before today. Sun would have been my favorite gal, but she seems nutty of late.
The women on Lost I find likable:
-Sun. I still say she is awesome. Her nuttiness is fully justified at losing her husband. Her true character judge at this point will be to see how much she let Widmore in on things and any repercussions on that.
-Juliet. She’s always just trying to do the best she can.
-Rousseau. Her crazy antics are fully accepted after having to kill your friends and lover, give birth on your own only to have that baby stolen from you and then live alone for 16 years. (I will admit bias since I am still in love with Mira Furlan from her days as Delenn)
But as for the rest, you are correct. There is a severe lack of likable women in the cast. Wonder if one can read anything into that as an issue. Its obvious the producers have Daddy issues. Isn’t Sayid the only “main” character we know of who doesn’t have any parental issues?
Lets look at who does:
Jack-Yes
Saywer-Yes
Locker-YOU ABANDONED ME, CONNED ME OUT OF A KIDNEY AND THEN THREW ME OUT A WINDOW so…yes.
Kate-Yes
Jin-Yes
Sun-Yes
Hurley-Yes
Charlie-Yes
Claire-Yes
Shannon and Boone-Yes (kinda)
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALT- Yes
Micheal- He was his own issue
Ben-Yes
Re: Sun – I think it’s a bad idea to leave her child (And Jin agrees with me) so she can go back to the island to look for Jin, who may or may not be alive from her point of view. She gives no thought to how she is going to get back to her child (at least none visible) Maybe I’m just not romantic, but I’m not happy with her decision, even allowing that she has an uncommon love for Jin.
Wow, the whole lot have them have parental issues! Hmmmmm. I wonder if that will have a larger significance later on.
Well, she could think she has an out with Widmore. Her main goal is to get back to the island and then rescue Jin.
I do agree that leaving the kid behind wasn’t the best decision. But she has been hell bent on revenge for 3 years. Given a chance to see her husband again can cloud that judgment.
Bob, a major intention of this episode was to set up these questions as flashback points for future episodes. I’m quite sure we’ll find out exactly how everybody got to the airport in the next bunch of episodes. That was actually quite cool how they constructed this episode, definitely one of the best this season so far.
If Ben killed Penny I will be pissed!
It’s definitely moving at a nice pace. At the end of season 3 we learn some get off the island. They took the whole season to show us how. Now after a few episodes they tell yeah they get back, the how they all got there will be later of course. I guess they don’t want to keep the big mysteries for too long. DHARMA station, how they found the island, I like it.
I know that this episode technically comes after next weeks episode, so maybe things will make a little more sense after we see next weeks episode.
Damon and Carlton said that both episodes were filmed close together and they felt airing it backwards made more sense. We’ll see I guess. I’m loving this season.
I loved Frank Lapidus’ comment upon seeing the Oceanic Six that the flight wouldn’t be going to Guam
Gordon – Lapidus’ comment made my husband and I start a major gigglefit. It was perfectly delivered.
I am of the firm belief that Mr. Ben totally took out Penny… or at the very least Des and Penny’s son, Charlie. Albeit, it was probably by accident if he did get Charlie. And thats why he got the everlasting piss beaten out of him.
Which sucks. But would make sense.
I have to agree that however Ben ended up in his current state it involved Desmond/Penny/Charlie. He was making the phone call from what looked like the docks and he knew that Desmond was in town so it was likely Penny was with him. I really really hope they did not kill off Penny as the Desmond & Penny reunion was one of the highlights of the previous season.
For me, this entire season is being watched more out of obligation than interest. I no longer have a lot of faith that the producers know what they’re doing or where they’re going. I find the show frustrating and slow — but having come this far, I feel obligated to see it through so I can (hopefully) find out what happens.
So I have seen this type of comment ever since season 2 of Lost. So I do wonder, why do you feel the need to share this thought with the world? Are you looking for some kind of recognition for “holding on?”
I am not trying to be snarky, I am just extremely curious why time and time again I see random people stating this same thing.
I am convinced now that TPTB really didn’t know that this was all going this way even 2 years ago. There is a rushed sense of “we’re making this up as we go along” and “we’ll explain it all before it’s over” mentality going on. This the time to be moving in for the close and last nights episode almost felt like we are getting ready to start all over again with a main story on the island and flashbacks that lead up it.
Don’t get me wrong…I am enjoying LOST more than ever. But I have this really bad feeling that the writers have “painted themselves into a deep corner” and it’ll take quite a leap (of faith)to make it out of that corner without messing up the whole works. Last nights episode only reinforces that fear.
In the end, it’s just a show…I know this. But this show needs to end as well as it began, or it will take it’s place in TV history for all the wrong reasons.
And a lot of us will want our 6 years back!
Oh man am I ever sick of the “they are making it up as the go along” excuse.
Let me ask you this. Say you are reading a book by an author. This author has decided to release his book chapter by chapter and let you read it as he is writing it. Half way through do you accuse him of “making it up as he goes along?” Granted, books aren’t normally released that way so you wouldn’t in that situation, but why then do serialized TV shows get this stigma?
As with any serialized tv show there needs to be at least a basic outline of where things are going. Details can be filled in as you go along. I feel Lost has always had the basic outline. Due to the nature of a successful (ie huge ad sales for the network) show, padding out the main story was inevetable. Once ABC agreed to let the producers have an end date they were able to map out the rest of the storyline and give us what we are now seeing. Hardly making it up as they go along if you ask me.
The only way you can ever accuse them of making it up as they go along is when the whole show is over and you can make a full assessment of the entire thing.
Actually, Akbar, anyone can accuse the writers of whatever they want, just like you can call them out on it. That’s the joy of us knowing absolutely nothing concrete. :-) Any one of us could be correct. Or not.
While that is true, it just seems like a rather weak attempt at justifying the distaste one has with the show. If you don’t like the way the story is going…stop watching.
Still enjoy the show but find faults in it? Then justify those faults as the apply to the narrative. Don’t play the whole “they are making it up therefore it sucks” card.
Hey Walley, I’m right there with you. This episode really felt as if it was put together on-the-fly. I agree with you completely but will keep watching just like you. Lost is still god damn interesting and the disappointment we feel right now comes from the feeling of repetition, of unevenness of things not being unique anymore – which is kind of unfair if the flight had to have been as close to 815 as possible.
The problem is that there was really no need to just show us that they all got on the plane without showing us how they ended up there. It feels like cheating after they crushed the possibility of Hugo and Sayid getting there in time at the end of the last episode. On top of that after we saw the Ajira Airways items on the beach and them getting into the church last time together with the Anagram of “Reincarnation” on Ben’s bus, we all knew that Locke would get back to the island and all we saw this week was just that – nothing more – with even more questions and no real answers at all. This was a week of easter eggs with the books read, the flight number of John 3:16 etc. etc.
But I have faith. I was so god damn pissed halfway through last season for nothing felt right and in the end they managed to put it all together.
I’m not nearly as angry as last year – no to be honest I was ok with this. Maybe I’ll take the time I wait for the next episode to read the book Ben read on the flight, Ulysses, or maybe I’ll read Y – The Last Man – the book Hurley read. Who knows. Talking about it here is also a good way to have fun while waiting so don’t mind the haters and simply enjoy talking about lost, criticizing it for not feeling complete while it’s still airing ;-) I hate that too, I would love to have all the episodes until the end right here and watch it in one sitting.
Which reminds me – I still have five seasons of Babylon 5 I never watched that way – another thing I could do while waiting and then maybe bitch about it in the Usenet newsgroup ;-)
I thought I read somewhere that they put together the show in “mosaic” fashion, and they have known what they are doing for quite some time and now just need to fill the mosaic in.
Whoa, Akbar…sorry to touch a nerve there. For the record, I love LOST, I enjoyed last nights episode, I do worry about the direction of the show and I’ll keep my opinions to myself in the future.
No nerve has been touched, I just find the reasoning you give to be weak. The whole “making it up thing” just holds no water.
Even the great Babylon 5 wasn’t 100% fleshed out and had major changes along the way. There is nothing wrong with that.
Take for instance Ben. Originally he was just gonna be a random ‘other’ and not the leader. His performance was so memorable they decided to meld his character with the leader of the others and keep him on. He has been one of the most interesting characters and story lines in the whole thing. I am glad that they were able to keep the story fluid enough to do this.
Like I said, if you do have honest concerns on where the show is going then by all means, please share those concerns and keep the fun debate going. That is what we are all here for anyway.
I, as per usual recently, agree with Akbar. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with the idea of “making it up as they go along.”
Ronald D. Moore, showrunning what I believe to be the best show on the planet right now, admits frequently that they’ve embraced the idea, as it is a more organic and fluid story development style.
I also agree that it can get (extremely) frustrating to hear the continued “I’m only watching now because I have to know how it ends” complaints. I’m not saying that its not a valid viewpoint, I’m with Akbar that I just don’t don’t get it. First off, because this season has been OUTSTANDING. S4 was a rebound, but S5 has been off the charts (Though, I will say this week was a bit slow, but it did set up the next six episodes or so quite nicely). Secondly, because if you have to work up enough interest to watch the show, that complaining about it wouldn’t be necessary.
I know that quite a few of you out there have been fans of this show from day one, like I have. We criticize the shows we love all of the time… (Unless you’re me, and you just fanboy defend for the hell of it (Read: Black Market)) But if you’re just not into the show anymore, then why not move on, if not from the show, but at least from the online community that IS still interested, that IS still excited, and that still enjoys discussing it?
Thank you dorv.
And may I just say we should use our new powers of agreement for good! (and maybe just a little evil)
WONDER-GEEK POWERS…ACTIVATE!
I actually didn’t enjoy this episode of Lost. My reasons are as follows:
-It seemed rather weakly written (the scene with Jack’s grandfather? what the hell was that all about. Surely a better situation could have been found to get Jack something of his dads. Tying it back to the shoes was just weak)
-Hawkings explanation at the beginning. Maybe i’m just spoiled by last weeks BSG (with Ellen and Anders actually making the amount of back story laid out interesting) but it felt like to me she was just reading to us the encyclopaedia entry on “how they found the island”
-The whole episode seemed like a waste of time. Pretty much everything important in this episode could have been done in about 15 minutes. It is almost if they were trying way too hard to set up future story points with their own little flashbacks (does anyone doubt we will be seeing how ben got the crap kicked out of him, how Sayid got arrested, what happend to Aaron and whats up with the new guy who talked to Jack)
*POST AUTHOR*
Akbar – I TOTALLY agree in regards to Jack’s grandfather. Everything about it seemed awkward, right down to the way that Jack was calling him grandad.
Have to disagree with the Hawking part though. It definitely could have been better, but last week’s BSG let me down a whole lot. I didn’t find the hour long exposition of back story to be interesting at all. At least the Hawking part was only 5 minutes. :)
Yes, this episode served no purpose than to setup future episodes, but I have a feeling that, once the stories are all told, that we would appreciate having it drawn out vs told all at once.
Jack’s grandfather was filler with no real purpose, unless the relationship is fleshed out a little more in the future (as we figure out who, or what, Christian Sheppard).
My thing with Hawking was less that she delivered boring exposition (which is shameful, because Flannigan is an outstanding actress), but I don’t CARE about how they found the island.
They just turned what should have been an exciting series of events (going back into the island) into a bunch of blah.
I find it kind of irritating that Walley thinks that they are making it up as they go while not really criticizing it but fearing they painted themselves into a corner with doing it.
He enjoys the show and fears it will end badly because they did that – that the outline they had wasn’t sharp enough to make up for a brilliant ending but maybe just for a so-so one.
Blasting Walley for that is… ah whatever. I understand what he meant, others attack him for it. Pick your own insult.
*POST AUTHOR*
I think there is room for every opinion here, as long as they are respectful (even if they’re wrong ;-) ). I welcome all comments, even those blasting my favorite show.
My thoughts:
The particulars of how and why the characters wound up on the plane seemed pretty incidental to the plotline this week, and I don’t view that as a bad thing. As others I think have mentioned, they were probably left vague for the purpose of being fleshed out in future episodes (maybe through flashbacks).
I saw this as being a more heavily character-based episode, dealing with Jack’s lingering doubts about what he’s about to do and conveying the hours leading up to the departure of Flight 316 from his individual perspective.
For the past four seasons he’s been the consummate realist and skeptic, refusing (or at best begrudgingly conceding) to take the “leaps of faith” Locke has tried prodding him into. Viewing the episode from the perspective of the character we know Jack to have been, there seems to be an atrophying of his disbelief going on, like someone gradually coming to embrace what seems like an impossible fantasy (all the more so upon finding his friends now with him on something he had previously tried alone)…though my suspicions are that the circumstances behind the whole reunion of the “escapees” are not as fate-based as they appeared to Jack.
Beyond the questions of faith and fate, I saw part of the purpose of this episode as underscoring Jack’s continued progression to being somewhat reinvigorated and restored, moving further away from the broken and defeated man he had become by the conclusion of last season. In the “recreation” of Flight 815, he almost seems representative of three characters at once: himself in that he’s once again transporting the dead body of someone to whom he has a complex connection; Sawyer, in the more superficial sense of carrying a letter with significance to him; but also resembling to an extent Locke and where he had been in an emotional sense prior to Flight 815: a dejected man searching for a sense of purpose.